INTERVIEW: There can be no hostility between Poland and Ukraine, says Zelensky
Poland and Ukraine can only achieve a strengthening of their relations, preserving an alliance that is crucial to the security of Europe, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has told the Polish Press Agency, Polish Television and Polish Radio.
PAP, TVP, PR: Mr President, how do you assess today's visit to Warsaw and meeting with Prime Minister Donald Tusk?
Volodymyr Zelensky: I am very grateful to Mr President, Mr Prime Minister for the invitation; to people who show us their unconditional support. I understand that this was the first foreign visit the new president had received. We had already spoken directly with Mr Prime Minister before, we talk very often. This was a very good conversation, very important.
Last night there were meetings, discussions between European leaders. The decision to grant Ukraine financial support for the next two years, including some form of use of frozen Russian assets, is crucial, very positive for us. I am deeply grateful to all our close friends, including Poland, who fought for this decision. This is crucial for Ukraine. We also spoke with the Polish side about the (Ukraine-Russia - PAP) peace agreement. As we speak, our team is in the US, soon to meet with American negotiators. I discussed all those issues with Donald Tusk.
PAP, TVP, PR: The prime minister said that you had some strong cards to play. You were told in the Oval Office once that you did not have the cards. Have you got them now? Any ace up your sleeve?
VZ: We are not that much of players. Of course, without a doubt, last night's decision granting us the support makes us stronger. It has given us additional cards to play. Russia has counted for us to be weak, at least financially. This of course boosts the spirit, the morale of our soldiers who are unsure whether they will have enough drones tomorrow, enough ammunition, whether everything will be in sufficient supply. And this has a great impact on the life of civilians.
Europe has demonstrated unity, despite some leaders' scepticism. It has manifested its individuality, its leadership, irrespective of the pressure exerted by Russia and various other players. I am grateful for Europe to stand on Ukraine's side.
PAP, TVP, PR: As a way to encourage European leaders to release frozen Russian assets, Donald Tusk said that they either spent money now, or shed blood tomorrow. Was the prime minister able to convince you today, after the summit, that the loan, the solution that had been adopted, would prevent bloodshed in the future?
VZ: It is crucial for me, not only from the financial standpoint, but also from the moral and legal perspective, that Russia bears the consequences of starting the war. All these funds are linked to the matter of reparations. We support reparations, we believe that Russia should be punished for all the harm that it has brought to our land. I am grateful to Donald Tusk. But am I satisfied? Of course, the 90 billion euros over two years make 45 billion euros per year. It is not the 210 billion euros (the approximate value of all Russian assets frozen in the EU - PAP) yet, but it is a step forward. We will do whatever it takes to end this war, so that we can use this money for the reconstruction of our country.
PAP, TVP, PR: Your welcome by President Karol Nawrocki looked a little different than an earlier one by then-President Andrzej Duda. At that time, our media published photos of the two of you holding each other in an embrace. This relationship is different?
VZ: First, I would like to thank Andrzej Duda. As president, he accompanied me on this long journey through the challenges of the COVID-19 epidemic and full-scale war. We became friends along the way. Together, we did everything to help Ukrainians, to protect Ukraine, Poland, to protect the army, for Poland to give shelter to Ukrainians. For me, this is a long road we travelled together. In wartime, such experience must be multiplied, twice or three times. I will never forget what he has done for us, I will never forget or betray our friendship.
As for President Karol Nawrocki, our delegations had to wait for us a long time today, we spoke at length. We are trying to demonstrate mutual understanding. I believe that after overcoming a certain distance, we will only achieve a strengthening of our relations. I would very much like to ensure that under no circumstances does this destroy what we have built so far.
PAP, TVP, PR: President Karol Nawrocki said that he relayed to you the opinion of the Polish public that "our assistance to Ukraine has not met with proper appreciation." What is your take on this?
VZ: We have always been grateful to Poland. In my view, we stand as one. We cannot show any hostility to each other, there can be no hostility between us. If we were careless, we could actually ruin this alliance. It is crucial to the survival of Europe and the security of Poland.
Russia strives to destroy the alliance between Poland and Ukraine. Polish and Ukrainian leaders should apply very careful rhetoric, aimed at developing their alliance. In this war, Ukraine is protecting not only itself, but also Europe and Poland. Poland lends us support, assistance, for which it receives our immense gratitude, as do other European countries. Having said that, not everybody is willing to help us.
PAP, TVP, PR: Speaking of underappreciation, President Nawrocki could have meant matters of our common past. You have declared that an understanding could be reached regarding the commemoration of victims (of shared historical events - PAP).
VZ: Exhumations (of Poles killed by Ukrainian ultra-nationalists during World War Two - PAP) are an open process now. The fact that today, representatives of our national remembrance institutes have met, indicates that those are not declarations alone. I believe that Ukrainians do not, and will not, obstruct the process. In matters of history, we should accommodate each other. In my opinion, such synchronisation is appropriate. Showing mutual respect is appropriate.
We have tragic moments in hour shared history, but also many occasions that are binding. Our alliance has many positive, permanent features. The way this war started four years ago, when we helped each other, this also creates history. We have not let Russians reach the border with Poland and become a threat to its independence. I view it as a very important part of our history. Let us not forget such moments.
PAP, TVP, PR: During his annual press conference, (Russian President - PAP) Vladimir Putin said today: we do not consider ourselves responsible for the loss of life, because Russia did not start this war. What would be your response to the Russian dictator's words?
VZ: It is difficult to find an answer to such words, to respond to someone who is not ready to listen at all. This is not a physical issue, this is a problem with an uncivilised attitude towards any country, towards human rights. He said: I do not intend to occupy the Crimea, and then he did. He said: I will not wage a full-scale war, and he did, anyway, willing to destroy us. Today he says he is not responsible while it is him who bears the whole responsibility. When he tells us today that we are a Kyiv regime, he does that because the whole world considers his Moscow government a regime. He has been in power for 30 years, he is dismantling the opposition. This is called a dictatorship, an autocratic regime. When he says he is not responsible, he a hundred percent is. Only he is guilty, and only Russia is. The full-scale war is also on him. It worries me when he says: I am not going to start war in Europe, this would be nonsense. In my view, those are the most dangerous messages today.
PAP, TVP, PR: What can Putin have in mind when he repeatedly speaks about the original causes of the war?
VZ: He keeps talking about the same thing, seeking justification. Tomorrow, he will say it was NATO, even though Ukraine has never been a NATO member. Then he could say that an invitation to NATO alone creates risks for Russia. Now he speaks about some buffer zones. He has been looking for justification to his own people. When we talk with our partners from the United States, I tell them Putin does not want to end this war, and he does not want this war to end in Ukraine. The question is, who has the actual capability to stop him, through economic sanctions, military force or else. The US are definitely one such a player.
PAP, TVP, PR: Putin said that he could suspend strikes deep into Ukrainian territory for the time of elections. Does it signal that holding elections could become possible? (US President - PAP) Donald Trump has also expressed such a wish.
VZ: The president of the Russian Federation is the original cause of this war. Putin's orders are the key reason why our children die. Odesa (a port city in southern Ukraine - PAP) has been under shelling for days, today also. Putin talks about how much he loves the city, the people of Odesa, so much he wants it strangled. He has destroyed its infrastructure, food production, so that no food, medicines, or fuel can be sold or distributed neither in Odesa, nor across the region. Such attacks by a large number of drones, shells, bombs, strikes against infrastructure are the true face of this war. It has Putin's face. Ultimately, he is going to destroy his own country.
Speaking of elections, my reaction to what the United States were signalling was very positive. I said I was not going to cling to power. If it is possible to ensure people's safety during such elections, so that people are not killed when they come to polling stations, then I am in favour of it. However, if you ask citizens of Ukraine whether they want those elections, whether they are prepared for them, all are certainly concerned about voting during wartime. Nobody has any idea how to organise it in a safe and fair manner.
PAP, TVP, PR: How do you assess cooperation with Donald Trump?
VZ: We are now having very productive talks with his team, discussing security guarantees and details concerning Ukraine’s reconstruction. I do not know whether we will manage to achieve everything, but it looks quite good. There are things that divide us, I am the President of Ukraine and I defend its interests.
PAP, TVP, PR: For the world, the face of the peace plan is Steve Witkoff, the US special envoy, about whom global news agencies wrote that he advised the Russian side on how to talk to Donald Trump. Do you also have such friends in the United States?
VZ: You have seen my negotiations with President Trump. We had our ups and downs. I always speak to him openly and I believe this earns his respect. Probably not many people in the world speak honestly to the President about what they think. As for Steve Witkoff, together with Jared Kushner and others from the American delegation we held hours-long discussions and we how to talk better to the US President was not among the subjects.
PAP, TVP, PR: What is actually in the negotiated peace plan? We are mainly interested in security guarantees. We hear unofficially they could be something like NATO’s Article Five. Is this a promise from Donald Trump that if Russia attacks again there will be an American response? Was such a declaration made?
VZ: For now I cannot reveal all the details because they are still being refined. What is very important for us is how our partners will react to a potential repetition of Russian aggression. These are the issues we are discussing and are most interested in. European security guarantees are a separate issue. Not everything suits us there either, but we are satisfied with them at about 90 percent.
PAP, TVP, PR: The initial plan assumed a significant reduction of the Ukrainian army. If talks move towards signing the final peace plan, do you allow the possibility that the size of the Ukrainian army would be reduced?
VZ: The working draft mentions a size of 800,000 and that is what our army needs.
PAP, TVP, PR: Today Vladimir Putin said he is ready to end the war peacefully if Ukraine withdraws from four regions. Are there any territorial concessions Ukraine would be ready to agree to?
VZ: Well, it is better to read a book than listen to Putin. He said it is very important to him that all Ukrainians take part in elections in Ukraine, including those in temporarily occupied territories. It is nice that he accepts the term "temporarily occupied territories," and the fact that not all Ukrainians wanted to run under his care. That is a positive thing.
Unquestionably, Putin temporarily controls some of our territories, but Ukrainians who are there cannot of course vote, and those results will not be verifiable. It is not enough that he controls elections in Russia, now he would also like to control our electoral process.
PAP, TVP, PR: What military assistance does Ukraine expect from Poland in 2026?
VZ: We are talking about drones. There are many European programmes financing the internal defence of individual countries or cooperation projects with Ukraine. We are interested in co-production with the Polish side. We have good companies on both sides that could establish co-production of both drones and missiles. I think this is the main priority.
PAP, TVP, PR: The scandal involving Enerhoatom (Ukraine’s state-owned nuclear power company - PAP) was used by some Polish politicians to argue that support for Ukraine should at least be paused. What would you say to those who doubt whether Ukraine uses the support properly?
VZ: It had nothing to do with the support received, it was a completely different context, a purely internal matter. What distinguishes us from Russia is that we prosecute crimes, conduct proceedings, and the media write about it. This is evidence of Ukraine’s transparency and its fight against manifestations of corruption. Of course there are risks, as in any country. During wartime they may be more visible and greater, but this also happens in countries that are not at war.
PAP, TVP, PR: A year ago Karol Nawrocki said he did not see Ukraine in NATO or in the European Union. Did you talk about this today?
VZ: Poland has always supported Ukraine on its path to membership of the European Union and NATO. Today our NATO membership is more complicated, we do not see support from the United States. As for our path towards European integration, Poland has always been among our closest friends and advocates of our membership. We talked a bit about this and I told the President that we very much count on him and on Poland to support Ukraine as a future member of the European Union.
PAP, TVP, PR: What is the situation on the front like at the moment, as Vladimir Putin also spoke about this today?
VZ: The situation on the battlefield is complicated. There are more and more Russians and it is getting harder because there were problems with the availability of certain types of air defence missiles. For various reasons these deliveries were delayed. Putin said they had taken 50 percent of all cities. Which cities? He has already spoken many times about controlling cities, we saw videos where a general reported on taking them. Then I went to Kupyansk, the situation there was indeed difficult and the front line was very close. But our armed forces control Kupyansk. Then that general disappeared, no one knows where he is. Yesterday or the day before, information appeared that he was found dead. I think it is the same general. Every piece of information needs to be checked ten times, but if he disappeared, I would not be surprised at all.
PAP, TVP, PR: Are more months of fighting for Ukraine ahead of us, or a faster peace?
VZ: We already had a peace plan that was more of an ultimatum than a plan. Then the United States began to talk to us more normally, showed understanding for our arguments and the plan began to change. We see our future in an independent state. Our talks are ongoing, today our negotiating team is meeting the American delegation in Miami. I believe I will receive information about the results of these talks in the evening.
I think we will draw up a plan. There are 20 points, and separate documents on security and reconstruction. If this does not work, will there be a continuation of the war? I would say yes: if Putin cannot be stopped, then that is exactly what Putin wants, the war will continue.
PAP, TVP, PR: What will you do on the first day of peace?
VZ: I will then have a lot of time for my wife and children. Many of our soldiers will have the opportunity to return home to their families. We will all be able to remember those who, by giving up their lives, made it possible for us to continue living ours. The second the war ends, everyone will start rebuilding Ukraine. People will return to Ukraine. No one will force them, those who do not want to, who have found the meaning of their lives and their future in other countries, that is their choice. But Ukraine should do everything to enable the return of the maximum number of Ukrainians after such a tragic war. (PAP)
Interviewed by: Karol Surowka (Polish Radio One), Zuzanna Dabrowska (PAP) and Mateusz Lachowski (TVP Info).
wpb/mj/ grg/
